This and That (Where Great Conversations Are Happening)

[R1s1ngs0n]

Those are some very interesting and thoughtful observations that are posted here, whether it's about the state of movie making, football transfers or moviegoers' rapidly declining attention span.

 

Regarding Scoresese' much commented 'jab' at Marvel movies, I happen to agree with him for the most part. He did make a generalization about these movies, which understandably riled up quite a few people, but anyone who claims he did it in order to draw attention to himself, clearly has no clue whatsoever as to what this man is all about and what cinema truly means to him. 

Movies are like food... we all like to eat junk food once in a while, but I think we can all agree that too much junk food is not very good for us, although it's certainly very profitable for those food chains.

 

The fact remains that cinema as a visual and story telling art form is slowly dying and that decline started way before Covid. People mention revisiting classics like Jaws, Die Hard, Terminator... and frankly who can blame them? These are all blockbusters but the difference between these movies and what is produced nowadays is the clear passion and artistic vision that drove these filmmakers and their creative teams. 

These movies are endlessly entertaining because they are not all about special effects and explosions. The characters, story and dialogue are what drive these movies forward.

You will meet and see tons of people on YT endlessly quoting Quint's Indianapolis speech, Batty's Tears In The Rain monologue or Pesci's What's So Funny About Me? because they are part of what makes these films so timeless. But I doubt you'll ever hear anyone say "Man, that car chase in F9/Thanos' death was out of this world, I'll never forget it as long as I live".

 

But like others here have also very eloquently put, there is also the problem of filmmakers nowadays forcing down viewers' throats over-stuffed, self-conscious and over-long movies that try too hard as if to say "here you go, real movie lovers, let us show you that Hollywood can produce blockbusters for the thinking man/woman".

Specifically, I'm referring to Nolan, Snyder and to a lesser extent, the Craig era Bond films. I may be a bit harsh on Nolan because I genuinely appreciate his efforts to make films that challenge viewers, but I can't help but find his directing and especially dialogue writing, getting increasingly worse with each film. 

 

Now finally to Messi and PSG 😁

Me and a good friend of mine (who happens to be a sloth) agreed that this transfer is all about PSG selling even more shirts and boosting ticket sales.

Best of luck to (past his prime) Messi if he really thinks he'll be able to win the CL with this club... I certainly can't see it happening.

[Veum]

4 hours ago, Casiusco said:

 

 

 

1. @Fortis93 is right, there have always been formula-movies, or roller coasters of its time, it's not something new; and reading @Trianna I think that maybe there are quite a few more than Scorsese named. I don't think that Scorsese sought publicity with his statements, in fact I would bet more that it is Gunn himself who is looking for some notoriety now, after this time, since Scorsese is well known for his public reflections on cinema situation or history, even in many documentaries, from always, in a lot of moments, without having to have a new movie on the starting grid. We can agree with him or not, it's another debate; but I definitely don't think it was a question of looking for publicity, as Gunn said.

But reading again calmly what you have written, I have the impression that the main difference between the old days, where there were also commercial films, and these times, is that now in the studios and in the productions the financiers rule, not the movies people; and that has made them adopt that formula of great success -and above all, its astonishing figures- sweeping everything else from the market. That difference makes that in the current situation everyone looks for those gigantic figures as the reference, the mere fact of advertising a film forces you to be at their leven if you want people to see you, and all that as a whole is preventing another type of cinema. Not necessarily experimental or artistic cinema, as @Fortis93 said, but even stories for other type of target. Sometimes hitting or despising even good commercial, roller coasters or other superhero movies that don't get that high.

A few months ago I read an article where it was told how Michael Douglas was denied the possibility of making a film with only a budget of 25 million with the excuse that "those films are no longer being made". To Michael Douglas, yes.

These are the decisions of the big studios, and if we add to that, that the big studios first bought the small ones, and now they are merging or buying between them, we have less possibilities in the market. As @Veum said, this Disney it's not the same. 

 

And for me that is the main problem, that the roller coaster formula -from a financial point of view, and boosted from a financial point of view- is eating everything, little by little. I don't know in your countries, but when I see the billboards in my usual cinemas, I find less and less variety; less real options. And, as @Veum said, variety is the spice of life.

 

I think that everything has to have its place. Superhero movies, Scorsese movies, traditional dramas, auteur cinema, slashers, experimental cinema...., and even the documentary that we will one day shoot when we meet. For sure. We need a world where Tony Stark and Frank Sheeran can exist close. Where you could see the last Fellini's film and Porky's in few days.

 

It's my opinion.

 

For another day we leave reflecting on the influence of the deep bias of streaming platforms, the real freedom of choice, and the educational influence that this has on the audiovisual education of the new generations of teenagers. Or not. For now we can continue talking about Hempsy's hammer.  

 

 

2. I'm agree with you both, @Trianna and @Veum. And a deal is a deal. 

 

In fact, if Disney keeps buying studios and distributors, it will one day be the only studio in the US.

 

 

3. @Trianna Yes, Messi is real, I've seen him close many times when he came to play against my team. In fact, I was surprised by how real he was: when he practiced before playing he put in a lot of effort, he ran with top intensity, exercising with greater concentration and dedication than his peers. Then he started the game, and he walked calmly through the field.

 

But I don't believe his tears. I disagree @Veum. If you've earned more than 700 million in that club, you love that club, they made you a player taking care of you since you were a child, for more than 21 yers, and you don't really want to leave, what you don't do is demand 40-50 million per season knowing that your club is bankrupt, and they cannot pay it. And leave if they don't give them to you.

 

I think he thought of money first, it's his right; and then he tried to offer a good image in Barcelona to return to live there one day.

 

By the way, for history it remains that his last game at Barcelona was... against my team, in Barcelona, and they lost 1-2.  

 

2 hours ago, Trianna said:

@Casiusco I would love to see variety in movies as well the problem is the short attention span of the people nowadays. 

 

For example I read some reviews of The Joker from our local cinema visitors when it first came out. There were A LOT one star review with the reason"nothing is happening, they just talk all the time". I don't know if the internet is partly at least at fault but most people can't seem to sit through a movie if a scene goes longer than 20 seconds without a dramatic cut, an explosion, shaky cam whatever.

 

2 hours ago, Pbsw23 said:

On one hand, I’m going to point to Birdman as being an incredible piece of art with regards to long scenes. So clever and yet… nothing happens really. Totally sucked me in though.

 

And then on the other hand, why does everything have to be 2hr+ long these days. Yes I obviously love my MCU and LotR epics, but do I really need 2 & 1/2 hours of Dom Toretto for the NINTH time?!!

 

What happened to 90min masterpieces.

 

1 hour ago, Fortis93 said:

 

At the risk of offering up another "hot take", I think the fault lies within some combination of the studios, filmmakers and audiences.

 

And I say that as someone who is firmly on the side of the audience. I think audiences will sit through films that are "still" as long as there is something engaging happening, e.g. 12 Angry Men, which a lot of younger audiences to seem to really dig from what I've seen.

 

There are times when filmmakers conflate self-consciously "showy" long-takes or superficial "stillness" for depth and I think a lot of audiences can sniff that out.

 

Not saying that "Joker" or "Birdman" are necessarily guilty of this (though there were times in Birdman when those long-takes started to draw a bit too much attention to themselves in a way that was distracting).

 

 

1 hour ago, Pbsw23 said:

The art of film making has come such a long way hasn’t it, and to a certain level it has ruined the art of story telling for me. I don’t know about anyone else, but When I think about some of the movies from my childhood and what they meant to me, and then I watch them back, it’s almost as if part of it was imagination in my head, and that was part of the enjoyment. 
 

With today’s films, I find I pick holes in plots wayyyyyy too easily, but that’s in part because they are trying too hard. Obviously part of it is my age and experience of the world, but I’m not sure I will love something as much as I did back then.

 

Not sure if that makes sense…. 😂

 

1 hour ago, Trianna said:

That's true, long films aren't necessarily boring nor do slow-paced movies have to be guaranteed artistic-engaging-masterpieces. 

 

But I also agree with @Pbsw23 that nowadays movies get longer and longer without the story or action to fill that time. Longer doesn't always mean better 😉 

 

It is just sad that studios won't take any risks and publish slower movies or let scenes breathe for once. On the other hand it's sad that this is nowadays considered a risk because people have the attention span for the length of a tiktok video. 

 

1 hour ago, Fortis93 said:

 

I think I know where you're coming from.

 

I don't know if it's a matter of films trying too hard, but that films or filmmakers are becoming a bit too self-conscious these days. Everything is referential or too busy paying homage to something else or a filmmaker is trying to be "quirky" or clever for its own sake.

 

I was born in the 90s, but grew up on a steady diet of blockbusters made from the 1970s through to the 1990s and I long for the days where you could watch a film and be so utterly engrossed that it stays with you long after watching. That kind that you want to revisit over and over again.

 

I think of films like Die Hard, Predator, T2, Raiders of the Lost Ark, Aliens, Jaws, etc.

 

 

100%.

 

I love that kind of tight, propulsive storytelling where not a single scene is wasted, but at the same time, allows room for certain story points or beats to properly develop.

 

It's a high-wire balancing act that's become a bit of a lost art nowadays.

 

I think it is a simplistic idea from me folks, the way I see it, it is the “dumbing down” of now & even past writers, true storytellers (our present society) 😡 

 

Where is the intriguing, suspenseful and dramatic writing gone (of course there are still a few that fit this criteria, however they are becoming less & less for me) 😞 

 

As I run though my Prime Video there are just not enough of interesting films 🎥 to go back to time & time again… this is why I can go back to my movies 🎥 that I own… I can enjoy them with repeat viewing. 

 

I 🙏 this will change real soon…

 

with the subject of DISNEY+, I guess I am subjective with my era but let’s just say with the cartoons, where is the fantastic imagination of our characters such as Mickey Mouse, Donald Duck & friends, also that fantastic program The Wonderful World Of Disney (I miss them not producing such great stories i.e. ZORRO, DAVY CROCKETT, etc.)

 

 

This is the reason I’ve been collecting such programs as older classic films/TV programs from earlier eras, All in the Family, The Jeffersons, The Beverly Hillbillies,  Looney Tunes, Hanna Barbera, Merrie Melodies, PePe Le Pew, Speedy Gonzalez, Seinfeld, etc., etc… this is  because of our current  “society” that is trying to take all of the fun/humor out of our Entertainment watching experience! 

[Fortis93]

5 hours ago, R1s1ngs0n said:

Regarding Scoresese' much commented 'jab' at Marvel movies, I happen to agree with him for the most part. He did make a generalization about these movies, which understandably riled up quite a few people, but anyone who claims he did it in order to draw attention to himself, clearly has no clue whatsoever as to what this man is all about and what cinema truly means to him. 

 

Filmmakers trying to judge other filmmakers' motives and intentions (whether they be on the part of Scorsese or Gunn or whoever else) isn't really conducive to helping the overall situation in improving the current output of cinema.

 

There's always going to be that element of subjectivity inherent in our perceptions of art and raking people over the coals for their views is just really ugly in my eyes. I remember Scorsese catching similar flak for saying he couldn't get into The Sopranos.

 

5 hours ago, R1s1ngs0n said:

Movies are like food... we all like to eat junk food once in a while, but I think we can all agree that too much junk food is not very good for us, although it's certainly very profitable for those food chains.

 

This is what I was alluding to before. The idea that films have to either be "junk food" or "high art" is really holding a lot of creatives back from making great films that manage to reconcile art with commerce, art with entertainment, etc. The output of films made in the 1970s are proof that this is possible.

 

I think it's matter of studios needing to back more types of filmmakers and filmmakers needing to step up to plate in telling a great story without making it about them or their directorial/intellectual prowess. 

 

5 hours ago, R1s1ngs0n said:

You will meet and see tons of people on YT endlessly quoting Quint's Indianapolis speech, Batty's Tears In The Rain monologue or Pesci's What's So Funny About Me? because they are part of what makes these films so timeless. But I doubt you'll ever hear anyone saying "Man, that car chase in F9/Thanos' death was out of this world, I'll never forget it as long as I live".

 

I think it's still too early to predict the type of impact or longevity these types of films will have.

 

Westerns enjoyed a similar kind of predominance throughout the 1940s to the 1960s, but they were criticised in the same way superhero films (which similarly function as pieces of myth telling) are today.

 

Even the great Alfred Hitchcock's films were written off as being "mere entertainment" back then by many critics (and fellow filmmakers), but it wasn't until a great many French critics began re-evaluating his work and saw that perhaps there may have been more to this films than met the eye that began to turn the tide on how people saw these films.

 

Now, I'm not comparing the works of Hitchcock or even the great Westerns made then to the superhero films of today, and nor am I saying that they will be met with the same type of reverence down the line, but there is a similar underlying mechanism that is functioning here.

 

And I say this as someone who doesn't really recall a lot of memorable sequences from many blockbusters nowadays, but at the same time, nor do I recall many from some of the serious or artistic fare that receive critical acclaim either.

 

5 hours ago, R1s1ngs0n said:

But like others here have also very eloquently put, there is also the problem of filmmakers nowadays forcing down viewers' throats over-stuffed, self-conscious and over-long movies that try too hard as if to say "here you go, real movie lovers, let us show you that Hollywood can produce blockbusters for the thinking man/woman".

Specifically, I'm referring to Nolan, Snyder and to a lesser extent, the Craig era Bond films. I may be a bit harsh on Nolan because I genuinely appreciate his efforts to make films that challenge viewers, but I can't help but find his directing and especially dialogue writing, getting increasingly worse with each film. 

 

For me, I think a lot of critically lauded films and filmmakers are just as guilty of this type of heavy-handed approach as a lot of blockbuster films nowadays. Though I won't say which ones in fear of getting myself in trouble. 😄

 

At the end of the day, we can criticise the current state of cinema all we want. But what is it going to do? Is it going to change anything?

 

I don't know. Streaming services appear to be the studios now taking the risks and allocating large budgets for films that traditional studios wouldn't even touch. And with that may also come the danger of supplanting the theatrical experience.

 

We need to find some middle ground. Studios, filmmakers and audiences need to be doing their bit. Studios in backing these projects, filmmakers in not letting themselves get the way of their own projects and audiences in supporting these projects where they can.

 

Edited August 11, 2021 by Fortis93

[Veum]

Shadows of the Night
Falling silently
Echo of the past 
Calling you to me
Haunting memory 
Veiled in misty glow
Phantom melody 
Playing soft and low

In this world that we know now
Life is here, then gone
But somewhere in the afterglow
Love lives on and on
Dreams of long ago
Meet in rendezvous
Shadows of the night
Calling me to you
Calling me to you

 

 

[LeGonze]

I love to come here and read you all Movie Lovers!!!... 

 

All fantastic comments!!... 😎

 

By the way... Nolan and Snyder Rules!!!  @R1s1ngs0n

Edited August 11, 2021 by LeGonze

[Hollywood E Rock]

On 8/9/2021 at 3:36 AM, Casiusco said:

 

What do you think about the words of James Gunn saying that Scorsese was cynical and criticized Marvel movies because he needed visibility for his film?

 

 

I believe James Gun saying “Scorsese was cynical and criticized Marvel movies because he needed visibility for his film” was inappropriate because James Gun has no way of truly knowing the motivations of Martin Scorsese. I can understand how James could come to such a conclusion, but that doesn't mean he should share those thoughts.

 

Unless Martin himself told James that was his intention with answering the question he should refrain from making such bold claims. Instead of giving his opinion on why he thinks Martin made those comments what James could have done was sensibly explain why Martin’s opinion of Marvel films was/is short-sighted. 

 

Quote

 

Who will win the fight, Disney or Scarlett?

 

 

It's hard to say who will win because our legal system has a lot of loopholes, & whoever has the most power in a situation often time is the one making the rules. Unfortunately in America it's not as simple as right & wrong, it's about power & influence. 

 

Quote

 

Who is right? Is she crazy taking on Disney? Or was it about time someone took on Disney?

 

 

From what I have been able to gather about this situation Scarlett Johansson is the one in the right. Disney made the selfish play because they are more focused on the continued success & growth of their streaming service. Which is morally wrong. You shouldn’t be willing to go down a path of screwing over your employees/teammates just for gain. Especially when you're already a winning franchise.

 

She isn't crazy for taking them own, but it’s a battle she may lose, but just because it's a strong chance this situation may not work in her favor doesn't mean she shouldn't fight for what she was potentially cheated out of.

 

Quote

 

When you win 20 million for a movie, do you have the right to complain, or if you've already won that, can they do whatever they want with you?

 

 

A company can only do to you what you agreed on in your contract. Paying her 20 million (which she doesn't get the whole 20 anyway) up front doesn't mean they have a right to ignore the rest of her contract without her permission. All they had to do is renegotiate the terms because situations are different now, but they didn't care to because they are the big dogs in Hollywood & she is just one actor.

 

Quote

 

What topic about your country do you like the least? Did you ever find it here?

 

 

There isn’t a topic about my country that I like the least. At least I can't think of one off the top of my head. Discussion is always important because growth and perspective can be achieved when one is willing. My issue is the fact that people are so stubborn (patriotic to a fault) to speak with about any topic dealing with my country. Humans are as complicated as they are simple & not enough people are willing to accept those complexities. Only able to see things through their narrow views & experiences. It can be frustrating to encounter sometimes.

[Veum]

🌚 goodnight to my fellow Psychos who need their rest now❣️😴 🛏

 

[Hollywood E Rock]

On 8/10/2021 at 12:49 PM, Casiusco said:

 

@Hollywood E Rock, it's incredible how many people judge others only by their looks. We should create a Pyscho VIP card just for people who would never do that, like us.

 

 

@Casiusco Yes my friend it's not only incredible but troubling. Humans are very layered as you already understand & when one can’t see passed the first layers of an individual's identity they run the risk of dehumanizing that person.

 

Quote

 

But not everyone is lucky enough to appreciate the intelligence behind beauty, isn't it?

 

 

No, everyone isn’t as lucky as we are. Us knowing this truth also leads to our further appreciation of our own position in the world because our ability to be able to look past the surface was granted to us because of the right circumstances. We don't have this superpower because we're special or better than those who don’t possess it. 

 

We have it because we were lucky enough to be born at the right time & right place to be able to learn & understand the ability. To be honest I'm still learning how to use the ability. I do like your idea of a VIP card. A card that represents that all of us understand that life is very gray, & what is ugly on the surface sometimes is what's most beautiful underneath.

[Hollywood E Rock]

Another morning, another day, another opportunity to be stronger than before! Psychos HAPpY

THICK Thursday

Spoiler

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Good Morning Psychos! Many beautiful things are waiting to welcome you to this new day. Happy Thursday 

 

[Benoit46]

 

Have a good day PsychooOoos !!

 

[Trianna]

Good morning

[Hecko]

2 hours ago, Hollywood E Rock said:

Another morning, another day, another opportunity to be stronger than before! Psychos HAPpY

THICK Thursday

  Reveal hidden contents

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Good Morning Psychos! Many beautiful things are waiting to welcome you to this new day. Happy Thursday 

 

 

Morning Psychos have a great day!

[Hollywood E Rock]

6 minutes ago, Hecko said:

 

Morning Psychos have a great day!

 

Thursday breakfast of true champions

 

 

[Hollywood E Rock]

On 8/9/2021 at 4:04 AM, Trianna said:

 

It's number 1 for me this time, he just has that special something...(it's the food)

 

 

I figured that Monday photo would appeal to you for that exact reason. 

 

[Hecko]

22 minutes ago, Hollywood E Rock said:

 

Thursday breakfast of true champions

 

 

 

Haha lucky the gf doesn't see what I post on here. How many reactions do u get a day I can't like anymore stuff or react.

[Hollywood E Rock]

1 minute ago, Hecko said:

 

Haha lucky the gf doesn't see what I post on here. How many reactions do u get a day I can't like anymore stuff or react.

 

I believe it's 10 reactions a day for Regular members 😕. Not enough for members who partake in the daily shenanigans. It's one if the reasons why I became an Elite member. The power to give as many reactions a day as you want is glorious 😎

[Hecko]

45 minutes ago, Hollywood E Rock said:

 

I believe it's 10 reactions a day for Regular members 😕. Not enough for members who partake in the daily shenanigans. It's one if the reasons why I became an Elite member. The power to give as many reactions a day as you want is glorious 😎

[Pbsw23]

On 8/11/2021 at 12:03 PM, Pbsw23 said:

Summer has apparently decided to drop by in the east of England once more. It’s a glorious day here and I am fully intent on blitzing my day in order to sit out in the sunshine armed with cold ones and a burger come 4pm. The weather has been rubbish this year.

 

Already sweated my backside off with the days workout. Even first thing this morning the home gym was rank as the sun crept over to bake the roof.

 

Also already submitted today’s intended work ahead of schedule, so now I get to calmly peruse emails and MP at the same time as the countdown begins…

 

I “Mayyyyyyyy” have slightly over cooked it yesterday…. 
 

It was bloody enjoyable though 😁👍🏼
 

Hope everyone else is good? The sun has just begun peeping around the clouds here again. Only time will tell if hair of the dog becomes part 2 or not. 😂

 

Edited August 12, 2021 by Pbsw23

[Veum]

🥤Top of the day to ya, going to be ⛅️  humid today here my friends... good day there, Veum here❣️🙏🤠

 

[Veum]

🌚 goodnight to my fellow Psychos who need their rest now❣️😴 🛏

 

[Veum]

I was hearing some English accent today on a commercial on the radio while showering and I bet I might not be able to understand some of my over-the-pond friends language here even though it’s English 😂

 

It would be funny to hear everyone’s voice here on MP! 🤣

 

 

 

[Veum]

18 minutes ago, Veum said:

 

🌚 goodnight to my fellow Psychos who need their rest now❣️😴 🛏

 

 

 

I know where…

 

 

[Hollywood E Rock]

13 minutes ago, Veum said:

I was hearing some English accent today on a commercial on the radio while showering and I bet I might not be able to understand some of my over-the-pond friends language here even though it’s English 😂

 

It would be funny to hear everyone’s voice here on MP! 🤣

 

 

 

 

Hell I can’t understand some Americans because of accents, & differences in pronouncing words. 😂

[Casiusco]

On 8/11/2021 at 1:18 PM, Trianna said:

@Casiusco I would love to see variety in movies as well the problem is the short attention span of the people nowadays. 

 

For example I read some reviews of The Joker from our local cinema visitors when it first came out. There were A LOT one star review with the reason"nothing is happening, they just talk all the time". I don't know if the internet is partly at least at fault but most people can't seem to sit through a movie if a scene goes longer than 20 seconds without a dramatic cut, an explosion, shaky cam whatever.

 

On 8/11/2021 at 1:46 PM, Fortis93 said:

 

At the risk of offering up another "hot take", I think the fault lies within some combination of the studios, filmmakers and audiences.

 

And I say that as someone who is firmly on the side of the audience. I think audiences will sit through films that are "still" as long as there is something engaging happening, e.g. 12 Angry Men, which a lot of younger audiences to seem to really dig from what I've seen.

 

There are times when filmmakers conflate self-consciously "showy" long-takes or superficial "stillness" for depth and I think a lot of audiences can sniff that out.

 

Not saying that "Joker" or "Birdman" are necessarily guilty of this (though there were times in Birdman when those long-takes started to draw a bit too much attention to themselves in a way that was distracting).

 

 

On 8/11/2021 at 1:59 PM, Pbsw23 said:

The art of film making has come such a long way hasn’t it, and to a certain level it has ruined the art of story telling for me. I don’t know about anyone else, but When I think about some of the movies from my childhood and what they meant to me, and then I watch them back, it’s almost as if part of it was imagination in my head, and that was part of the enjoyment. 
 

With today’s films, I find I pick holes in plots wayyyyyy too easily, but that’s in part because they are trying too hard. Obviously part of it is my age and experience of the world, but I’m not sure I will love something as much as I did back then.

 

Not sure if that makes sense…. 😂

 

In what you are commenting there is an increasingly important circumstance: the education of the audience. For example, more and more children are having trouble reading long paragraphs, or books that require a little effort or concentration. They are approaching the world accustomed to consuming short and easy messages, where there is nothing to think about. To this you can add the consequences of growing up thinking that the world is what you see on Netflix.

 

It's not gadgets or streaming platforms are bad, no.. really they are great; but, on the one hand, we accustom children to living in the immediacy, everything now and everything easy; and on the other, despite having more tools and media than ever, we are reducing its variety and horizon more than ever.

 

I'm not saying that this is always the case at all, not at all. I say that it's something that is becoming more and more common, and that, therefore, it becomes part of the audience.

 

In fact, even beyond the cinema, it's estimated that a good part of teenagers are not capable of maintaining their attention throughout the duration of a game. For example, they don't follow the 90 minutes of a football game, it's too long, even if their team plays. And there is already an audience problem with football at that ages.

 

And as there are more and more people like this, or that what they do and what they like is a trend, the audience is mutating, fragmenting, and the offer does too.

 

Edited August 13, 2021 by Casiusco

[Casiusco]

On 8/11/2021 at 2:01 PM, Trianna said:

That's true, long films aren't necessarily boring nor do slow-paced movies have to be guaranteed artistic-engaging-masterpieces. 

 

But I also agree with @Pbsw23 that nowadays movies get longer and longer without the story or action to fill that time. Longer doesn't always mean better 😉 

 

It is just sad that studios won't take any risks and publish slower movies or let scenes breathe for once. On the other hand it's sad that this is nowadays considered a risk because people have the attention span for the length of a tiktok video. 

 

I agree. In fact, It's what I was thinking about in my last post.

 

I would add that sometimes there are some biases about fast / slow movies, and many people assume that an option is good or bad on its own. I don't believe it. For me a movie should be what its story needs; some need to be slow, and others need to be fast.

 

"let scenes breathe for once"

 

Great words, @Trianna. It's true, it need it; but I think that this it's linked with the type of storys that films includes today. And the characters. Sometimes there is nothing that can be breathed.

 

And we've gotten used to certain things being so quickly, that when a movie does and takes time to breath, we're not used to it anymore, and the audience reacts badly. 

 

On 8/11/2021 at 3:54 PM, R1s1ngs0n said:

Those are some very interesting and thoughtful observations that are posted here, whether it's about the state of movie making, football transfers or moviegoers' rapidly declining attention span.

 

Regarding Scoresese' much commented 'jab' at Marvel movies, I happen to agree with him for the most part. He did make a generalization about these movies, which understandably riled up quite a few people, but anyone who claims he did it in order to draw attention to himself, clearly has no clue whatsoever as to what this man is all about and what cinema truly means to him. 

Movies are like food... we all like to eat junk food once in a while, but I think we can all agree that too much junk food is not very good for us, although it's certainly very profitable for those food chains.

 

The fact remains that cinema as a visual and story telling art form is slowly dying and that decline started way before Covid. People mention revisiting classics like Jaws, Die Hard, Terminator... and frankly who can blame them? These are all blockbusters but the difference between these movies and what is produced nowadays is the clear passion and artistic vision that drove these filmmakers and their creative teams. 

These movies are endlessly entertaining because they are not all about special effects and explosions. The characters, story and dialogue are what drive these movies forward.

You will meet and see tons of people on YT endlessly quoting Quint's Indianapolis speech, Batty's Tears In The Rain monologue or Pesci's What's So Funny About Me? because they are part of what makes these films so timeless. But I doubt you'll ever hear anyone say "Man, that car chase in F9/Thanos' death was out of this world, I'll never forget it as long as I live".

 

But like others here have also very eloquently put, there is also the problem of filmmakers nowadays forcing down viewers' throats over-stuffed, self-conscious and over-long movies that try too hard as if to say "here you go, real movie lovers, let us show you that Hollywood can produce blockbusters for the thinking man/woman".

Specifically, I'm referring to Nolan, Snyder and to a lesser extent, the Craig era Bond films. I may be a bit harsh on Nolan because I genuinely appreciate his efforts to make films that challenge viewers, but I can't help but find his directing and especially dialogue writing, getting increasingly worse with each film. 

 

Now finally to Messi and PSG 😁

Me and a good friend of mine (who happens to be a sloth) agreed that this transfer is all about PSG selling even more shirts and boosting ticket sales.

Best of luck to (past his prime) Messi if he really thinks he'll be able to win the CL with this club... I certainly can't see it happening.

 

You're right, but maybe we should differentiate between movies and products; between filmmakers and simple directors who are actually coordinators. As showrunners of a single chapter.

Today we have mainly products and coordinators. The concept of "auteur" is already officially the opposite of industry.

 

And those products no longer need big dialogues. Notice that now the money goes mostly to special effects, but even more and more to marketing. With that they are already telling you everything: for them it's more important to convince you that they have a good product, than to make a good product.

 

I agree with you about Scorsese, but I was surprised to see Snyder on that little list. For me, he took the trend post Nolan Batmans, and brings it closer to what has ended up being the current superhero cinema. But they both make quite different kinds of movies.

 

PS: I think PSG will win the Champions League. Because they have good players, but also because there is no particularly strong and powerful opponent. What I don't know is how Pochettino is going to do: if Neymar, Mbappé and Messi play together, who will defend? Who presses?

 

On 8/11/2021 at 6:01 PM, Fortis93 said:

 

Filmmakers trying to judge other filmmakers' motives and intentions (whether they be on the part of Scorsese or Gunn or whoever else) isn't really conducive to helping the overall situation in improving the current output of cinema.

 

There's always going to be that element of subjectivity inherent in our perceptions of art and raking people over the coals for their views is just really ugly in my eyes. I remember Scorsese catching similar flak for saying he couldn't get into The Sopranos.

 

 

This is what I was alluding to before. The idea that films have to either be "junk food" or "high art" is really holding a lot of creatives back from making great films that manage to reconcile art with commerce, art with entertainment, etc. The output of films made in the 1970s are proof that this is possible.

 

I think it's matter of studios needing to back more types of filmmakers and filmmakers needing to step up to plate in telling a great story without making it about them or their directorial/intellectual prowess. 

 

 

I think it's still too early to predict the type of impact or longevity these types of films will have.

 

Westerns enjoyed a similar kind of predominance throughout the 1940s to the 1960s, but they were criticised in the same way superhero films (which similarly function as pieces of myth telling) are today.

 

Even the great Alfred Hitchcock's films were written off as being "mere entertainment" back then by many critics (and fellow filmmakers), but it wasn't until a great many French critics began re-evaluating his work and saw that perhaps there may have been more to this films than met the eye that began to turn the tide on how people saw these films.

 

Now, I'm not comparing the works of Hitchcock or even the great Westerns made then to the superhero films of today, and nor am I saying that they will be met with the same type of reverence down the line, but there is a similar underlying mechanism that is functioning here.

 

And I say this as someone who doesn't really recall a lot of memorable sequences from many blockbusters nowadays, but at the same time, nor do I recall many from some of the serious or artistic fare that receive critical acclaim either.

 

 

For me, I think a lot of critically lauded films and filmmakers are just as guilty of this type of heavy-handed approach as a lot of blockbuster films nowadays. Though I won't say which ones in fear of getting myself in trouble. 😄

 

At the end of the day, we can criticise the current state of cinema all we want. But what is it going to do? Is it going to change anything?

 

I don't know. Streaming services appear to be the studios now taking the risks and allocating large budgets for films that traditional studios wouldn't even touch. And with that may also come the danger of supplanting the theatrical experience.

 

We need to find some middle ground. Studios, filmmakers and audiences need to be doing their bit. Studios in backing these projects, filmmakers in not letting themselves get the way of their own projects and audiences in supporting these projects where they can.

 

 

About "junk food" or "high art": I think that everything has become polarized, and that the fact that certain types of films have "occupied" the cinemas, not only succeeding but actually occupying the physical place in the rooms, and at the box office, we have lost the "middle class" a bit.

 

Now you either see big blockbusters, or, except in the Oscar season, if you want to see another type of cinema you have to go to art cinema, to other types of screens; to films that are discussed after certain festivals and that many people (too many) then never get to see.

 

And here we also have the influence that people love not to leave their comfort zone; they don't experiment. We no longer go to the cinema to "know", only to "recognize"

They don't offer their patience, their time, and their open-minded attention to different proposals. We all have many things to do, we are all in a hurry, and we go easy. It's normal. Today the world is like that, with movies, with food, with everything.

 

And it's true that time leaves everyone in their place, and I totally agree with you that we need a middle ground. And I hope it comes. But I don't think it does it by streaming platforms. The platforms' support for certain films has more of an advertising campaign than a real option. They do it a few times, with famous names, linked with awards, a lot of press, and then ... goodbye. 

Edited August 13, 2021 by Casiusco